Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/12/1998 08:05 AM House STA
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 462 - USE OF STATE MONEY FOR IMAGES/MESSAGES Number 0228 CHAIR JAMES announced the next order of business is HB 462, "An Act relating to the contents of certain state documents." Number 0235 REPRESENTATIVE GENE THERRIAULT, Alaska State Legislature, came before the committee. He read his sponsor statement: House Bill 462 is designed to curtail the increasingly prevalent practice of using state publications to further personal political agendas. HB 462 would place a number of publications off-limits to state officials for personal purposes. In the past, these documents have been used to disseminate legitimate programmatic deadline information, but I believe that they have deteriorated recently into materials used primarily for self promotion. While any elected official would relish the opportunity to send political and personal messages to the electorate at state expense, this sort of message should be restricted to individual stationary or newsletter format purchased through the appropriate budgets. The use of routine publications for this has the potential of politicizing the underlying programs and I think that should be curtailed. Number 0253 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT read the following sectional analysis: Section 1 amends AS 44.99 by adding a new section that prohibits state agencies from placing a picture of a state official on an application form, warrant, or direct deposit notice. It limits the use of messages from state officials on those publications to what is required by law, is necessary for understanding the document, or addresses a seasonal health issue. It allows messages from the commissioner of the department, director of the division, or head of the legislative agency responsible for the program or activity for which the document is issued as long as the message is limited to stating the requirements of the program and providing reminders about deadlines. The bill defines "state official" as the governor, lieutenant governor, a legislator, a state judge, a state justice, the commissioner or deputy commissioner of a state department, the director or deputy director of a state department, a board member of a public corporation of the state, a member of a state commission, board, or the authority, an officer of the University of Alaska, or an employee of the state. REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT noted examples of past publications were provided to committee members, he believes some are appropriate messages some are clearly inappropriate. REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT indicated he went back and forth with the drafters on the wording of the bill. If the committee has suggestions on alternative wording, he would be willing to consider that. Number 0290 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to move HB 462 from the committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes. REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ objected for purpose of debating it. CHAIR JAMES stated for the record that she had a similar concern last year. It had to do with a mailing by governor that had to do with some of his credits and so forth that he was hoping to put through the legislature. She pointed out that it was a fairly large piece, she received as a small business and some of her clients received it as well because it was (indisc.) up business tax. It had a big picture of the governor on it. Chair James indicated it looked so much like a piece of campaign literature that she instructed her staff to call to find out how it was paid for because it didn't say that on it. She said she wouldn't have done that had it looked like something she would have gotten from the governor's office, but the size of the picture, the whole thing looked to me like campaign material that you would see during a campaign season. The ironic twist of the response she received, because the issue was credits against a tax and the question that my staff asked was, how was it paid for, and it was paid for just out of the governor's office funds. She stated, "Then it was paid at the taxpayer's expense, he said no it wasn't because we don't have any taxpayers. And the document itself was the taxpayer's (indisc.--coughing) we're going to get a credit if they did this. So I thought that statement by a staff person that was kind of ironic, not that they had time to think about it, we don't have any personal tax but we do have a tax. We have a corporate income tax, and this was definitely aimed toward them. You know, there are taxpayers out there." CHAIR JAMES reiterated she has never seen such a piece of advertisement on an issue that didn't look so much like a campaign material. Number 0333 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT believes if we had a law that restricted anything that looked like "red light" campaign material, or if there was a law (indisc.--background) the theft of original idea we would probably all would run afoul of that. He believes it's legitimate to differentiate between those things that he sends out on, a piece of stationary, that's purchased with state money. He mentioned "We all get an office account and we can put out newsletters, and certainly in my newsletter, I put my spin on the issues. In letters, it has my political philosophy on a piece of legislation. That's different though than an ordinary state publication that's goes out once a month - and turning that into a personal propaganda piece." Number 0351 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT continued, "There are lots of examples that I think the current Administration has taken the publications to a new all-time high. Very slick, very good, at least this is not something that is once a month sent out to thousands of people in the state of Alaska who are participating in a particular program. Where did the mailing list for these publications come from, I don't know. But this is not an ongoing state program that has been turned into a slick mailing (indisc.), that's what I'm getting at. My concern is that the underlying programs become more and more politicized as that mailing list is used more and more to send out this type of application. I think the previous Administrations have resisted - maybe they just haven't been savvy enough to utilize that means as much as this Administration. But I think with the appearance of a photo of the governor on documents, the growth of that photo on documents - if we keep up this rate of growth pretty soon the yearly dividend application will be an eight by ten glossy. I don't think we want to do that with that particular document and I don't think we should do that." Number 0372 CHAIR JAMES remarked this is a really sensitive issue but really appreciates Representative Therriault bringing it forward because that's what she's heard from the public as well. Regardless of politics, people have been making that statement, "Boy, this governor sure does know how to advertise himself, and I've never seen it before." REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ stated, "There are some good ideas in your bill, but remember this legislative majority report to the people that was paid for by the people. To me I found this probably more offensive than you find in these things, because this is a publication that went out, that repeatedly referred to the Republican led majority accomplishments, it has a web site reference to the Republican organization, that didn't come out of personal office account, but went statewide. Now, it would seem to me, in the interest of fairness, that you would close the door on this type of blatant partisan political advertisement as well. And your bill doesn't do that." REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT replied, "I clearly differentiate between that, and if that was attached to a check that you would receive from the government once a month, or a check that you are entitled to apply for once a year, I think both the Administration and the legislative branch have budgeted amounts to send out information in that format. Certainly if you want to introduce legislation to curtail that, that's a step further than what this legislation (indisc.). What this legislation is designed to do is differentiate between those ongoing state programs and attaching any kind of information, that information, this information, to documentation that is sent out in conjunction with an ongoing state program." Number 0403 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said he was curious about some instances in which he may run afoul of this. He stated, "The way I read this is that it not only covers visage, or photo, ... Would this prohibit me - one of the things that I do is I send a notice to people, in my community, that they have not yet applied for the permanent fund dividend, it's a message. I do it on letterhead, suggesting that if you haven't done this you ought to do it because the deadline is March 31. Would this legislation prohibit me from doing that?" REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT responded he didn't believe so, it's not intended to. He asked Representative Elton if he was using his office account to pay for that. REPRESENTATIVE ELTON replied he would be. REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT stressed you are not using the mailing of a dividend document and attaching your message to that document. REPRESENTATIVE ELTON referred to page 2, line 4, "program" is defined as "permanent fund dividend program" and "longevity bonus program." He asked if that definition only applies if it's a warrant. Number 0426 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT referred to page 1, line 7, "may not place a message from a state official on or with an application." He explained you can't put the message on the check stub. You can't put the message on the application form. If you're using your own office account and stationary you should be allowed to do that. A newsletter from your office is not on the warrant, not sent out with the application, or any part of the application, so that would not be swept in by this bill. REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ asked what if Representative Elton, or any of us were to send out a PFD (permanent fund dividend) application with a letter. REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT replied, "I didn't think that would fall in here because, number one I would suspect that you would be using your own postage, and again the message -- you're right, there might be something here that if you got a blank application and sent it out with the form - I think we could probably craft language if that is a legitimate concern so that it's the mailing coming from the division, so you would not be able to supply the dividend division with ten thousand messages that they would insert in with their mailing. But if you want to get a bunch of blank forms and you send things out yourself that would be fine. But you should not be able to piggyback on the statewide postage." Number 0454 CHAIR JAMES asked if there was any reason HB 462 could be held over. Since no one was left to testify on line to teleconference, she asked if it could be shut down. [Lost sound, didn't pick up full statement]. Number 0462 JACK KREINHEDER, Senior Policy Analyst, Office of Management and Budget, Office of the Governor, came before the committee. He said he would start by answering Representatives Berkowitz' and Elton's questions. His understanding of the bill is that you would not be prohibited from the situation of sending out a PFD application with a message that the deadline is coming up, or what have you, because on line 7, page 1, it says a "state agency may not place a message..." since you're not a state agency, he believed he would be okay there. He noted, "However, that's notwithstanding, we do have some serious concerns about this bill. Our overall concern is that, in addressing a couple of specific instances that legislators may have disagreed with the Administration on the content of messages, that it's casting a very broad net and placing a very broad restriction on helpful communications between state government and the people of the state. A couple of specific examples that they're concerned about -- the 1998 PFD application for example has this information from the Permanent Fund Corporation that provides information about the fund's performance and balance and so on. His reading of the bill is that this helpful information would be prohibited because it's not addressing the requirements of the program or a reminder about the deadline. That's one concern is that this type of information would be prohibited, as he reads it, as well as the brochure that's included with the checks themselves come from the corporation, not from the Administration or a message by the governor. MR. KREINHEDER pointed out other areas of concern is for example with business license applications. As he understands, the Department of Commerce [and Economic Development] doesn't provide routine mailings of this type, that (indisc.) situation where the department might want to provide information about an upcoming small business conference, information on other types of assistance that are available from the department for small business. So, again, the concern is that this is casting a very broad net if there are concerns about particular messages. He thinks that is something they could talk about, but to prohibit any type of mailing, or additional information not related to deadlines or program requirements are accessibly broad. He asked if Nanci Jones had anything to add to that. Number 0511 NANCI JONES, Director, Permanent Fund Dividend Division, Department of Revenue, was next to testify. She indicated she just wants to give a chronology of the dividend booklet. Ms. Jones said, "Governor Hammond, starting in 1979, started endorsing the application process and he had signed letters. Only one time in four years he had, on the outside cover - front and back, he had endorsed letters to each Alaskan. In 1988 the dividend division was borne where all the services, pertaining to the application and the dissemination of the check was under one division - and Governor Cowper then had endorsed them on the outside of the booklet." MS. JONES continued, "Since the history, the booklet has looked like an encyclopedia and it was my desire, as the new division director, to add a little bit of human service into the booklet so people could better relate to us. When we first came in, and you all can share with me that you were getting tons of letters, complaints about the type of service that we were giving to the applicants over in the Permanent Fund Dividend Division. The first booklet had an endorsed letter by Governor Knowles, no pictures, the only picture, again was a survey that the Permanent Fund Corporation sent out asking, 'What do you do with your dividend, do you spend it or do you save it,' that was the first picture. And the next I asked the governor's office to give me a picture because I knew the corporation was going to do pictures, and I, myself, asked the staff to pose for a picture on the outside of the booklet, so again we could have a better relationship - that people can see that we are humans, we're not designed to not give them a dividend. Again, that was the pictorial one 1997." MS. JONES concluded, "In 1998, then the only picture - then again the board of trustees, it has the page explaining what the progress of the dividend's fund (overall fund), and then it has a letter on it which just explains how much is in the fund and reminding people to help other people to file. And I just sent out a letter which you all should have received to ask you to remind your constituents, when you leave on your break, to file by the deadline. I just wanted to make that clear that it was actually for the dividend. It was actually my idea to redesign the booklet, to make it a little friendlier, easier to read, more white space. So I would like to take credit for that." Number 0544 CHAIR JAMES told Ms. Jones she has done a fine job on the booklet. Chair James asked her to hold up the 1997 and 1998 booklets to see the comparison (a little picture in 1997 and a bigger picture in 1998). She noted the perception of the public is what it appears to them to be, that the governor has been, for four years, running for office on government funds. She agreed that they get nit- picky, what we do to solve the problem of the perception with the public is we make innocent things illegal and we do it time after time. Maybe where this belongs is in the ethics bill, the public needs to feel comfortable with the way that their state funds are being spent. REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ said he agrees completely that those kinds of political messages, on government publications, are inappropriate. It doesn't matter whether it's a Democrat or Republican putting them out. MR. KREINHEDER said this is not a political message, he encouraged them to read it. It simply talks about how successful our permanent fund has been, a source of pride and security for all of us, be sure to fill out your application today, if you know somebody who might need help please lend a hand, the deadline (indisc.) filing, etcetera. Number 0591 REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ said he understands that but some of the examples that Representative Therriault sited, whether it's discussion of ongoing or legislative issues, he does find that inappropriate. If you're going to send something out, you send out what you're going to send out, he thinks to some extent rank has its privileges, the governor can put his picture on certain things, he can sign certain things, but it's not fair to log (indisc.) in official publications. CHAIR JAMES noted she gets the Governor's Message every month on the longevity bonus, generally they're compassionate, but we have had some that were very pointed as well. There isn't enough room on there to let seniors know what you're talking about. If there's a hot button in there, that's a political message and is inappropriate. When it comes to ethics, we all know what's ethical, but there's another level and that's what the public suspects as ethical or not. Number 0617 MS. JONES made a plea to not relegate them back to where they are like an encyclopedia and it's all words and no one reads it and it's just a waste of money. She stressed there are some publication people in the small villages won't get except for - unless we put the fund information in with their dividend. CHAIR JAMES asked about closing the fiscal gap. MS. JONES replied it's the insert that was in with your check and it's all about fund transfers and the amount of the earnings... Corporation. CHAIR JAMES asked what's the picture about closing the fiscal gap, what's that issue. MS. JONES reported they wanted your thoughts to establish (indisc.) whether you disagreed, agreed or disagree, it was a survey. There is more about the fiscal gap and the difference between... REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN jokingly said, "Include all 60 legislators in that packet and I'll feel comfortable." Number 0634 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT reiterated, "We went around and around in trying to decide where to draw the line and that's why I said I'm not wedded to any particular language. Maybe the sensible thing is no official holding an elected office. I think that the format of the dividend application - it's much more pleasing to look at now. We've all learned constructive use of white space, I agree with the steps that they've taken. He asked is there any reason why the picture on the front couldn't be a picture of the permanent fund staff, same information, same pleas, get in touch if you have a question. Is there any particular reason why my picture's not on there? How about me having a personal message wishing happy Easter to all the constituents that get a dividend check, or bonus check in my district signed by me. Why can't we have the longevity bonus staff wishing people a Merry Christmas? Let's take it all the way back to the days in, I think Chicago, when your government check was given to the politician and he came around, knocked on your door and gave you your paycheck. Just send all the dividend checks to me, I'll set up a little stand on the street corner, people can stop by and get their dividend check from me. They'll know where the money came from. It came from me. I think that's sort of the message that we put out. I think it's inappropriate for me to have that access to those publications, I think it's inappropriate clearly for any elected official to have access and we know that when you put out a newsletter. The advice you get is put on a picture, don't send anything out, a newsletter format, without putting lots of pictures and use that white space. Any elected official would love to have access to that. I just think it should be completely disallowed." Number 0658 REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ jokingly said the Co-chair of Finance [Representative Therriault] does know that the money does come from him. CHAIR JAMES indicated HB 462 would be brought up at the next meeting.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|